Revelation Revealed Pt. 2

Marcel: 00:00:08

Welcome to the deeper dive podcast brought to you

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by the OSI church of Christ.

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The deeper dive podcast is about going deeper into God's word, learning new

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insight, and taking a fresh look at the verses that impact our daily lives.

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Today is the second part of our series.

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Revelation revealed here is Gordon Ferguson.

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Well from the podcast, number two on the book

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of revelation and on prophecy in general and how to interpret it.

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Uh, I'm Gordon Ferguson.

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I've done a great deal of study on prophecy and all the book of revelation.

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And I am happy to share it with, you know, for many, it is a confused.

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Uh, study and revelation is a confusing book, but I think we can simplify

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it and understand it because God certainly intended us to understand it.

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When God talks about mystery and the Bible, he's not talking about something

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hidden, he's talking about something that was hidden, that he is now making known.

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And so to give a brief review, We did mention that the end times was

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a big interest to a lot of people.

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And I think today in the times, in which we are living with so much, uh,

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disturbance and upheaval going on all over the world in many, many forms, including

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a pandemic of COVID-19 certainly we are thinking a lot about the question.

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Is this the end time?

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And of course that's a good question and a natural connection.

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We talked a good deal.

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Last time about apocalyptic language.

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The word for revelation itself is, uh, from the word

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apocalyptic has or apocalypse.

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Uh, as we would use it in English, but at any rate, we talked about it being

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a hyper symbolic language that the Jewish people, uh, totally understood.

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Uh, we went back and looked at some passages on Isaiah that you would look at

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it and think, wow, that's the end of the.

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All of the stars of the sky are dissolved.

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The Evans are rolled up like a scroll.

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Uh, the star I host will fall, like whether it leaves from the van, like

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struggled figs from the fig tree.

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And so we looked at a number of, uh, passages in the old Testament.

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Uh, kind of set the stage for what we're doing.

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We did look at Daniel because Daniel gives symbols, but then he explains

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exactly what those stand for.

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He interprets them for us.

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And so we looked at Daniel to, uh, during the time of Babylon's reign and

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king Nebuchadnezzar at the head of that.

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And we talked about a patient that he had a great statue

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with different kinds of metals.

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Uh, making up the statue and very clearly, uh, that statue was identified as 14.

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That'd be condenser and Babylon or the head I'll go.

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That was the first one.

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And then after them would come, the Mito Persian empire, the

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worldwide empire would take over.

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And then after that Greece would take over and under Philip of Macedonia

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and his son then Alexander the great, when we talked about that one, then

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the fourth K Newman was the Roman kingdom and it was during that time

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that God would establish his kingdom.

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Uh, his new kingdom, his new covenant kingdom, they were looked at Daniel

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seven, showing that a, the same four kingdoms are talked about, uh, this time

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using, uh, the beast analogy or symbol.

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And so we talked about the lion and the bear and the leper, what those stood for.

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And then, uh, another beast that was the Roman empire.

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So we looked at that one.

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Then in Daniel eight, we saw that it narrowed it down and picks up with the

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Mito Persian empire, but then it gets into the, uh, And that was the Greek empire.

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And it talked about that and how it was going to be divided up

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after Alexander the Great's death, uh, among his four generals.

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And, uh, they would have different parts of the old Greek impact.

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And one in particular, uh, had a lot of control and the part of the world in

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which the, uh, Jewish people lived and they would have Kings and especially one

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who would desecrate the temple and temple worship and do some very terrible things.

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And that would be called an abomination, uh, that desolate.

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And so when we get, uh, To the new Testament.

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It does talk about the abomination of desolation.

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And we're about to get to that in a little more detail.

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Right now, I did recommend the commentary by.

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Uh, John Oaks on Daniel, it is still available.

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It is the book on my shelf that I go to when I want to

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look up something in Daniel.

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So I do recommend that to help you understand Daniel, but Daniel is a book

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in the old Testament that uses symbolic language, but thankfully he gives us the

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interpretation of much of it and helps us get a feel for what the symbolism means.

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It doesn't refer to the end of the world.

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It may refer to the end of a nation, certainly.

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And that's what the book of revelation actually does.

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It is going to refer to the end of the Roman empire that was, uh, severely,

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uh, persecuting the Jewish people.

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And that picked up in the end of the first century, when the church was relatively

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new, I did want to go to the new tech.

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Because the only place outside revelation in the new Testament

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that has any significant symbolic language is Matthew 24 and the

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parallels to it in mark and Luke.

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And so we went through Matthew 24 in some detail, and most people

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when they get down to the part of Matthew 24, that talks about, uh,

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the lightning coming from the east.

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Is visible.

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Even in the west, it will be that way in the coming of the son of man.

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And he talks about the distress of those days.

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The sun will be dark and the moon will not give its light.

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The stars will fall from the sky, then appear the sign

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of the son of man in heaven.

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Et cetera.

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And so when people look at that part of Matthew 24, they assume

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that that is all about the end time, the end of the world itself.

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And of course, in the beginning of the chapter, Jesus had said that the temple,

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that the apostles were so impressed with the temple was going to be torn down.

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And he said every last time, And so the apostles want to

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know, wow, this is incredible.

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What are you talking about?

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When will this happen?

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Is there a question and what will be the sign of your coming and the end

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of the age or the king James and other older version, say the end of the world.

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It's actually the word for ins, not cosmos for.

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The world as we think of it, but, uh, the age.

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And so people look at that and they think, wow, that's the second

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coming and the end of the world.

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And that would be natural if you hadn't stopped.

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Uh, prophecy and symbolic language, but when you began to think about it, they

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didn't think Jesus was going to leave.

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They had a hard time grasping the resurrection and the

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death that proceeded it.

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They didn't understand what he was talking about.

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So at this point in time, they did not have the concept of the

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second company that we do at all.

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And so I don't think they're asking about a coming.

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In the sense we think of, they are talking about a coming in judgment

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because that was a common way to describe God bringing judgment.

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He would come and bring judgment is coming.

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And then the end of the age, obviously, if you tear down the

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city and the temple, then that's the end of the Jewish age and an act.

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In fact, it was, that was what was intended to be.

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And God talks about that.

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And Hebrews chapter.

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And describes the.

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Uh, and the things says the old covenant had already been taken

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away, but it was going to have a more decisive end in an obvious way.

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And I think that was the destruction of Jerusalem.

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But at any rate, Jesus goes into great length here in Matthew 24.

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But the thing you want to definitely see after all that he says all of the

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symbolic language, he ends up that chapter or the part we're looking at in verse

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34, by saying, truly I tell you this generation will certainly not pass away

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until all these things have happened.

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And so we talked about that one.

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Now, what we're going to do today is move on.

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To the passages in mark 13 and Luke, uh, as well, 21.

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And so in mark 13, let me pick up there.

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As, as Jesus was leaving the temple, one of the disciples said

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to him, look, teacher, what massive stones, what might buildings?

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Do you see all these great buildings?

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Jesus said not one stone here will be left on another.

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Everyone will be thrown down.

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Now the.

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Uh, observation here by the apostles came into response to what Jesus said

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about the woman who gave her last two coins into the, uh, the place

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where you gave them at the temple.

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And so Jesus praised her and said she actually has out given everyone else,

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the rich are giving out of their wealth.

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And they've got plenty leftover, but she's given everything she's had.

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She gave a real sacrifice, the ultimate sacrifice financially.

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It's all she had.

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And so Jesus was basically saying that her giving represents.

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A heart for God, much more than the people that were giving much more money because

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they were giving out of a great deal.

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They were not making much of a sacrifice, whereas she was, and that's why they

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were reminding Jesus, wait a minute.

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This is such a beautiful, magnificent temple.

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And it was built with the money given by the rich people.

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And so they were offended because Jesus basically sort of, uh, put them down.

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He dissed them a bit, the rich guys.

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And so Jesus does say that not one stone will be left on another.

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Then it goes on in verse three of mark 13, as Jesus was sitting on the Mount of

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olives opposite the temple, Peter James and John and Andrew asked him privately.

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Tell us, when will these things happen and what will be the sign that

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they are all about to be fulfilled.

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And so now BARR who's riding to more of a Roma type of audience, a Gentile audience.

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He doesn't use the symbolic tack language nearly as much that Matthew

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used because he was writing to a Jewish audience who understood it.

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And so.

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It doesn't say anything about, uh, Christ coming or the end of the age.

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He simply ask when will these things happen?

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And what's the sign when they're about to happen?

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So, nothing is mentioned about the end of the age, because mark and Luke,

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we're not addressing a Jewish audience.

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Mark does use some of the same apocalyptic language.

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But he concludes with the assurance that these things would happen within

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a generation, which would be 40 years.

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And all of this was a given and about 80, 30.

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And so 40 years later was a D 70 when the Roman army, uh, totally destroyed

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Jerusalem and did destroy the temple.

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So.

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That gives you the insight into what Jesus was really talking about.

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Now let's get over to Luke 21.

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What I like about Luke is that he picks up with the, uh, idea in the

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early part of the chapter about the little widow giving her money,

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but let's pick up in verse five.

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Some of his disciples were remarking about how the temple was adorned with beautiful

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stones and with gifts dedicated to God.

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The rich guys built the temple in other words.

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But Jesus said as for what you see here, the time will come when

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not one stone will be left out.

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Another, every one of them will be thrown down teacher.

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They asked when will these things happen and what will be the sign

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that they were about to take place.

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Same, two questions as an mark.

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And so what, when would the temple be destroyed and how will we know

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it's approaching that time then down in verse 20, he talks about the

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abomination of desolation referring back to the terminology of Daniel.

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But of course, in Daniel, it was talking about something that

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the Syrian, uh, leader did at least the one housed in Syria.

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The one of the generals of Alexander that was controlling that part of the

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world, but he was talking about the Syrian king that desecrated the temple.

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But he is applying the terminology because this is the next time it's

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going to be desecrated in this time and much more, uh, terrible terms going

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to be destroyed this time, not just desecrated by sacrificing a pig and

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setting up idols in the temple as one.

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Uh, back in the enter testimonial period.

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But this time it's, when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies,

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that's what verse 20 said.

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When you see Jerusalem being surrounded by armies, you will

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know that its desolation is near.

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And so he explains it in college.

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Uh, terms that Gentiles would understand.

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And since Luke is a Gentile, the only Gentile writer of the new Testament,

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he explained it in very clear terms.

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And then he talks about them fleeing the city, you know, back in Matthew 24, he

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says, pray that your flight will not be on a Sabbath or in the winter is going

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to be tough for, uh, women and men, especially pregnant women and mothers.

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And there he's talking about fleeing at the end of time when Jesus

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does return first Corinthians 15.

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I mean, it's going to be.

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Everything changes.

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It's all over.

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No, one's going to go back into a house or any other place it's

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over it's resurrection time.

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And so even in Matthew 24, in spite of the apocalyptic type language, use the

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very descriptions that he gives about not going back into your house and fleeing and

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getting out of the city and all of that.

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It's obvious, obviously referring in his details.

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Uh, to the destruction of Jerusalem and the need to get out when

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this time was coming, it is an historical fact that would Rome

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surrounded Jerusalem and AAV 70.

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There wasn't one point a pause in the battle.

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And the Christians did heed the warnings of Matthew 24 and the parallels, and

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they were able to escape the city.

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They went down to the little city of.

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So, uh, it is pretty clear here in Luke's account that we're simply talking about.

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The destruction of Jerusalem are coming in judgment.

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The destruction of the city, the destruction of the temple, which ended

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their age ended the Jewish age ended the first covenant made with the Jews

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and ushered in at the day of Pentecost.

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When the church was established ushered in the, uh, Covenant now most

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writers, including some of my teacher friends, uh, try to divide Matthew

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24 and the parallels into two parts.

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They do admit that the first part is about the destruction of

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Jerusalem, but they say the last part is about the end of the world.

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And when you asked.

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Continue reading.

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I didn't continue reading, but the next verse, after what we've read

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saying that the generation wouldn't pass until these things happen.

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Jesus said, but if that day an hour knows, no, man, uh, not the angels, not me.

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Uh, no one knows, uh, when that is going to occur.

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And so most people's.

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That when Jesus says that no one knows when it's coming.

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He has to be talking about the end of the world.

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Well, not at all.

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I don't think he is at all.

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He's just saying the specific time.

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No one knows including me while I'm on the earth in the flesh as a man.

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And so the angels, no one knew except the father.

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I'm sure.

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After Jesus got back to heaven and ascended, he certainly then would

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know, but he sang of that pay an hour.

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That is the specific time.

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No one knows, but here are the signs.

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That you could recognize when it is there.

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That's what they asked for.

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That's what Jesus gave them.

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And he explained to them that no one knows the subsidy time, except the

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father right now, but watch for the signs so that you can get out of the city.

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Uh, when this destruction comes, which is that the structure of Jerusalem

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pay D 70, the end of the Jewish age, I will mention that Luke 17.

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Takes language from all parts of Luke 21 and mixes it all up in a way that

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either it is all about the end of the Jewish age and the destruction

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of Jerusalem and the temple.

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It's either all about that.

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Or, uh, it is a hodgepodge.

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It can't be understood.

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I mean, you can't take all of that chapter and apply it to the end of the world.

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You could say it's either about the end of the Jewish age or the end

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of the world, but I don't think you can say it's the end of the world.

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And Luke 17, add something to that because he thinks all of

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the signs and mixes them up.

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And I think it's either got to be the end of the Jewish age, as

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we've said, or some kind of, kind of hodgepodge that you can't under.

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And I don't think God does that sort of thing.

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For sure.

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I do suggest an article on my website, Gordon ferguson.org

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that is entitled Matthew 24 end of the world or in how the age.

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And so I go through all of this in some detail.

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But the reason I've taken the time to do it here is because it gives you

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an idea of the symbolic language that while it was not used much in the new

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Testament, outside the book of revelation, it certainly was used in Matthew 24.

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Uh, Luke 21, Luke 17 and mark 13.

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But I think you must have some grasp of symbolic language, this type of language

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that was common in the old Testament.

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And especially then during the, uh, intertestamental period, because it was

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a type of language used for a purpose during the persecution time, encouraging.

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Uh, God's people that it was going to be okay.

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Eventually the enemy is going to be destroyed and defeated and my way,

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and my cause is going to triumph.

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Now let's get into revelation.

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Let's talk about interpreting revelation.

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I will mention, I think as I have already in podcast, one that while many

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of the symbols, most of them come from the old Testament, they are applied.

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Uh, applied in different circumstances.

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Now, two different political situations.

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We're not talking about Babylon.

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We're not talking about Egypt.

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We're not talking about any world power in those days.

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We're talking about Rome because that is the nation that was in power.

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When the church was established, the new covenant was established.

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And so now we're going to be addressing what is happening in.

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When we come to revelation, we're going to find a lot of numbers in the book.

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Uh, one is the number of unity and all of this quite well-known to the Jews.

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Two was the number of strengthening, carried that idea.

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And so the apostles were sent out to.

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Because that was the strengthening for the work they were doing.

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Three is the divine number, father, son, and holy spirit four

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is the world or cosmic number.

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And so in revelation, it will talk about the four winds of heaven,

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the four corners of the year.

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We obviously don't, uh, have four quarters of the earth.

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We know that, but it's described in that way in revelation,

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because four is the cosmic.

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Seven on the other hand, as you add the divine number and world

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number together, you get seven.

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And that certainly is the number of professions.

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When you add those two together.

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And so when it talks about the seven spirits before the throne of

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:25

God, he's not talking about seven individual spirits, he's talking about

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:29

the holy spirit in his perfection.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:32

Seven is the number of perfection that being.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:35

So the number six is a number that was evil, incent, sinister.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:43

It was short of the perfect setup.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:46

Uh, honestly, it was a lot like R 13 today.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:50

There are hotels without a 13th floor, as far as what the elevator says.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:23:57

Obviously there are 13 floors, but they don't call it that they skipped 13.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:02

Uh, that was very popular at one time.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:05

I'm not sure if it is today.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:07

But, uh, I haven't looked lately, but I know when I was younger, there

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:12

were definitely buildings that I was in that had the 12th floor and 34

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:16

on the elevator indicator, but not a 13, because that was a bad number.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:21

So six, when we come to the, uh, number of the.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:26

6 66.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:28

It's going to tie in to that, uh, short of perfection number.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:33

And we'll talk about that more when we get there, 10 was the number of completeness.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:39

If you have all your fingers, all your toes, 10 was the number of

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:43

completeness and we'll see that.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:46

And so when you multiply that one out and come up with a thousand,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:49

that is all ultimate completeness.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:52

So I think.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:53

Uh, revelation 20, when we talk about a thousand year reign of Christ, uh, we're

Gordon Ferguson: 00:24:58

not talking about a literal thousand years, any more than most other numbers

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:06

and revelation are not meant to be literal, but rather they are symbolic.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:12

This is a book of symbols, 12 in revelation, which is definitely

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:17

used the 12 tribes of Israel.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:19

Is used twice.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:21

That is just the number for organized religion.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:24

You had 12 tribes of Israel, you had 12 apostles.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:28

And so 12 was the number that signified religion.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:33

Then when you take the perfect seven and cut it in half, three and a half, that

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:40

is going to stand in revelation for a period of instability and persecution.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:46

It's going to be stated in several ways.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:49

Uh, 42 months, 1,260 days.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:25:53

Uh, and then using Daniel's terminology a time times and half of a time.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:01

And so that's another way of saying three and a half and 42

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:05

bucks is three and a half years.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:07

1,260 days is three and a half years.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:10

And so that is just a period of persecution and instability that

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:15

will end colors have a distinct.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:19

Uh, we're going to find some horses that are colored a certain

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:22

way when the symbolism begins and the colors stand for something.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:29

And so typically white was always victory.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:32

Our purity, a red is going to stand for bloodshed.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:38

And so.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:39

Uh, we'll pick up on the colors when we get there, but colors have

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:43

symbolic, meaning just like numbers.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:45

Do beasts represent an enemy nation or an aspect of that nation.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:51

And so we're going to read about certain beasts that stand for Rome or

Gordon Ferguson: 00:26:58

an aspect of Rome horns as in the old Testament, commonly stand for power

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:05

or for Kings their political events.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:08

Being represented, heavenly bodies being affected the stars, falling

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:13

the moon, turning to blood.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:14

All of those things, uh, show the upheavals of nations and human powers

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:20

as God brings judgment against them.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:24

Just like in Isaiah that we started with and a podcast, number one different

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:30

symbols, maybe use to show the same basic.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:35

It's just at a different stage of God's judgment, but it stands for basically

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:41

the same thing at type of judgment.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:44

And so earlier in revelation, we get Trump's.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:47

And the destruction that comes as the trumpets are sounding.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:52

And then later on in revelation, we get bowls of wrath being poured out.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:56

And what we're going to find is the trumpets were more of a warning

Gordon Ferguson: 00:27:59

affecting, uh, part, uh, what it's describing the bones of rat

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:05

was sort of the finality of it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:08

The phonology of the judgment against.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:11

Now there are current population, uh, popular, rather interpretations that

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:18

I want to mention in the old days.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:20

In fact, in my book revelation revealed, I talk about some, uh,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:26

views of interpretation that had certain names, uh, attached to them.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:33

But now it has become more simple.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:37

Rather than using sever several different, uh, sort of technical terms to describe,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:44

uh, interpretations of revelation to that had been used and accepted by some

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:48

historically now almost all views fit into what is either called pre millennialism.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:28:56

Or ah, millennialism or millennialism means that there will be no

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:02

literal 1000 reign of Christ on earth at the end of time.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:09

The thousand year reign is mentioned in revelation 20 we'll deal with it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:13

We will get to that point, but I don't think the thousand years is

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:17

literal and the reign of Christ is described in revelation 20 a, but it

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:23

is not talking about him on the earth.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:26

Personally.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:27

It is talking about something that took place on.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:31

As the persecution was severely limited for a long period of time, which is

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:37

what the thousand years stood for.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:39

Well, we'll get to that pre millennialism means that there will

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:44

be a reign of Christ on the earth.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:48

And so, uh, Jesus will reign on the earth for a thousand years.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:29:55

According to this, uh, 50 years ago, pre millennialism was not widely accepted.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:03

When I first began my ministry and really digging into revelation and

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:07

soon thereafter teaching it, I've taught revelation in a school for.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:14

A number of years, it became one of my specialty courses.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:19

Ray Romans did that as well.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:21

I've written books on both of these Nikes positions, but I taught

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:25

those two courses over and over.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:27

I taught many other courses, Christian evidences.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:30

Restoration history and almost every other book in the Bible, I've talked

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:35

to them at sometime or other, uh, in my years at the school, but I taught

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:41

revelation enrollments over and over.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:43

When I taught revelation, I would read a new commentary every time I taught it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:48

And I would read commentaries that I totally disagreed with, uh, some

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:52

of them taking the pre-millennial.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:55

It wasn't a popular view back then, but it was in the process

Gordon Ferguson: 00:30:59

of becoming popular 50 years ago.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:03

Now it is the most popular view within evangelical circles

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:09

names like, uh, John Nelson.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:13

Who really started this pre-millennial view.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:17

He was a person who lived in the 18 hundreds.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:20

He died near the end of the 18 hundreds, 1882.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:24

The one that picked up on what he taught and made it popular was see, I scoped.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:31

He died in 1921.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:33

So he lived in the 18 hundreds.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:35

Uh, did a lot of his work in the early 19 hundreds and died in 1921.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:40

He put out a very popular Scofield reference Bible.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:45

I was given them.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:47

At my 15th birthday, I remember it had a nice red cover on it,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:52

and it had a bunch of footnotes.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:54

It was a study Bible and had a lot of footnotes that were pretty scary

Gordon Ferguson: 00:31:58

things for me as a boy at 15 years old, especially because we had a

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:04

very good minister friend that came in and spoke to our little church.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:08

And he was as pre-millennial as you could get with, uh,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:13

all kinds of extras thrown in.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:16

Uh, he was scary for me to hear, because that was his pet thing.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:21

He talked about it every time he came virtually, uh, then about the time I

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:27

became my, uh, started studying for ministry, how Lindsey was the one that

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:33

really popularized the pre-millennial.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:37

Uh, he's still alive out of the way.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:38

At age 92, he's lived a very interesting life.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:41

He continues to spout out all kinds of things that he thinks

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:44

are, uh, prophesied in the Bible.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:47

And he's been wrong so many times you could write an entire book about

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:52

all the things that he wrote in his books, like the late great planet.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:32:57

That was very popular, but, uh, he none, the less, in spite of all the

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:02

prophecies he gave that never came true, that were actually ridiculous.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:07

In spite of that, he, uh, was I think the most influential person in developing

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:14

this pre-millennial view now maybe.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:17

Riders expound.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:19

This view, it's the most popular view in the evangelical world.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:23

There are a lot of people that are audible and you'll that is, they don't believe

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:28

that there will be a literal thousand year reign of Christ on the earth.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:31

There are a lot of people in the evangelical circles that are assembling.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:37

Certainly I am hobbling, you know, I'll explain why, but you're perhaps

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:43

familiar with the series of books by a pretty well-known Christian writer.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:48

I mean, he writes about a number of things, but he wrote a series called

Gordon Ferguson: 00:33:53

left behind and then a film series was developed based on those books.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:01

So even people.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:03

Like Tim LaHaye or who are recognized spiritual writers in general

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:08

have gotten into that genre of interpretation and written books.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:12

And they've developed films from them about the pre-bill and you'll view.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:18

Here are the elements of.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:21

The popular most normal pre-millennial view.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:26

I think it is so wrong, but nonetheless, this is it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:30

Number one, Christ will return to the earth and rule for a thousand years

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:35

in Jerusalem and rebuild the temple.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:38

Uh, seven years before price return, the righteous will experience a rapture, which

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:44

means a catching up based on the last.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:47

Uh, term, uh, rep Tio, and first Thessalonians four 17 mentions a rapture

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:55

in the Latin version, a catching up.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:34:58

We'll talk about that one, but anyway, uh, it talks about a rapture

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:04

or a catching up of the earth.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:06

Those who are righteous, the safe folks get raptured up and

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:12

then those left on the earth.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:14

We'll experience the great privelation and the last part of the seven-year period.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:20

So the righteous are caught up to heaven to be with Jesus for seven

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:23

years, and then they come back with him to the earth and he establishes

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:27

his kingdom on the earth for a literal thousand years during the latter part

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:33

of that seven year period, after the righteous have been taken to heaven are

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:37

wrapped it up a personal antichrist.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:40

One individual will arise to bring off.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:44

The great tribulation at the end of the seven-year period, Jesus returns sets up

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:49

his kingdom on earth for a thousand years.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:52

And so the early riders, like Lindsey and ones that were a lot

Gordon Ferguson: 00:35:57

more scholarly than him, he went to Dallas, theological seminary.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:01

I used to go and use their library for research a lot, but, uh, anyway, They say

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:09

that Jesus came to establish the kingdom.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:13

When he came, when he was born in Bethlehem, he came to establish the

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:18

kingdom, but the Jews rejected it and him, he was blocked by the Jews.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:25

And so the church is no more than a parenthetical aspect of the

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:29

kingdom, but it's not the real.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:31

Uh, they claimed that it can't possibly fit all of the old Testament prophecies.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:37

And so that is the basic idea that they have.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:42

They used to say, Schofield says, and there's notes, underwrites chapter two,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:47

that he says that the kingdom was a block.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:52

Are rejected by the Jews.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:54

And Jesus has Chad established the church as a sort of interim substitute

Gordon Ferguson: 00:36:59

until the millennium actually.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:03

Now as popular as the pre-millennial view is I think it is so full of assumptions.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:09

It's incredible.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:10

Scriptures are twisted as much as they can be tryst twisting, and

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:15

a lot of people are doing it are actually otherwise very good scholars.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:18

It's, it's amazing to me, uh, that this could happen.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:22

Let me just look at one thing about this pre-millennial view and that is

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:27

the rapture, the left behind concept.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:29

Let me read a couple verses.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:32

A few verses in first Thessalonians and explain something to you.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:37

It says brothers and sisters picking up in first Thessalonians, four

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:41

verse 13 brothers and sisters.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:43

We do not want you to be informed about those who sleep in debt so that you do not

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:48

grieve like the rest of mankind who have.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:52

Or we believe that Jesus died and rose again.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:55

And so we believe that God will bring with Jesus.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:37:58

Those who have fallen asleep in him.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:01

According to the Lord's word, we tend you that we who are still alive,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:06

who were left until the coming of the Lord will certainly not precede.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:09

Those who had fallen asleep for the Lord himself will come

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:13

down from heaven with a voice.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:15

Or with a loud command with the voice of the Archangel and with the trumpet

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:19

call of God and the dead in Christ will rise first after that we who are

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:24

still alive and our lip will be caught up raptured together with them taking.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:32

With them and the clouds to meet the Lord in the air.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:35

And so we will be with the Lord forever, therefore encourage

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:39

each other with these words.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:41

Now here's the context.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:43

The Christians were having their loved ones die and they had questions about,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:49

will they miss their reward because they won't be alive when Jesus comes.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:55

And so when Christ returns polisher.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:38:59

We're all going to go up together, save Christians and,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:03

uh, all, all, uh, save people.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:05

They had Christians and living Christians alike that they'd Christians will rise

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:10

from the grave first together with the living Christians be called up to meet the

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:14

Lord in the air and be with him forever.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:16

What happens to non-Christians that are.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:19

Is not addressed within this context at all.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:22

The only two classes of people mentioned are dead Christians and

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:26

living Christians when Christ comes.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:29

So since non-Christians are not addressed at all, If you want to know

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:36

what happens to them, you've got to look at passages that deal with that.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:41

You can't go to a passage that doesn't even mention non-Christians

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:46

and concoct a whole theory.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:50

The rapture theory that people hold today, many of them, you

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:55

can't go through a passage.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:56

It doesn't even mean.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:39:58

Non-Christians and Jada concoct a view that includes them.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:04

Now, if you want to go to a passage that deals with Bo.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:09

Not hard to understand John five verses 20 and 29 says this do not be

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:15

amazed at this for the time is coming.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:18

When all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:23

Those who have done what is good will rise to live.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:27

And those who have done what is evil will rise to beacon.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:32

And so when Jesus comes back, he raises everyone.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:35

It is the judgment day saved and lost a life.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:39

It says all that are in the tunes will be raised at the same time.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:46

There is no seven year gap between two resurrections.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:51

And so, uh, when you look at, uh, a passage that actually deals

Gordon Ferguson: 00:40:58

with the dead non-Christian.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:01

Then you can come up with something that is actually true.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:06

Now there's no seven year gap between the resurrections.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:09

There are no two resurrections.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:11

There are spiritual resurrection.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:14

Uh, of several types, one type is a spiritual resurrection that actually

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:21

will be described in revelation 20.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:23

And when we get there, we will talk about that.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:27

So my question is in all seriousness, I'm not trying to mock anyone.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:33

I'm just flabbergasted.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:36

That people have come up with the views that they have.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:39

So my question is how in the world, can you build a doctrine with two

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:44

separate resurrections from fish first Thessalonians four when

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:48

non-Christians are not even mentioned?

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:53

I think the answer to both questions is the fertile imagination of wannabe

Gordon Ferguson: 00:41:59

teachers who twist some scriptures and in.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:03

Other things that are absolutely make believe stories, but they appeal to

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:10

our human desire to know what cannot be known and was never intended to be known.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:16

And that is everything that's going to be.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:18

Done at the second coming of Christ.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:21

What I know is he is coming back.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:23

It will be unexpected.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:25

Everyone is raised at once.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:27

We are caught up and, uh, before the judgment seat of God, and then those

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:32

that are lost will be cast into hell.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:35

And those that are saved will be ushered in to be with the Lord for forever.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:41

And so.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:43

Next podcast.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:45

We will get to revelation, give some background of what was going

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:49

on in the Roman empire at the time.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:52

But at least I felt like it's worth two podcasts just to deal with apocalyptic

Gordon Ferguson: 00:42:58

language, the symbolic type language with which revelation was written.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:05

And so hopefully that is helpful.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:07

You can read more articles if you will.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:10

On my website, Gordon ferguson.org.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:13

You can buy the book, uh, revelation revealed.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:17

I've had so many people.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:20

I've taught this a lot through the years in our churches, many, many years, but

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:25

I've had so many people tell me and write me and thank me for a writing

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:30

revelation reveal because they said I used to be so afraid of that book.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:36

I wouldn't even read revelation.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:38

And now that I've gone through Europe, Uh, it makes perfect sense.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:42

I understand it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:44

And it accomplishes for me exactly what God intended it to accomplish.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:48

It really encourages me.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:50

It excites me.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:52

It's full of all kinds of action and things.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:55

And it's a fun thing to read.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:43:58

Uh, I wish I could see it as a movie, honestly.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:01

That was made correctly interpreted correctly, but it is a very exciting book.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:07

And next podcast, we are going to jump into revelation, get a little historical

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:13

background of it and then do a survey of revelation, not in great detail,

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:19

but I think you'll agree when we.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:21

And that revelation is not nearly so mysterious and

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:25

complex as many would make it.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:28

It can be understood.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:29

It was intended to be understood.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:32

And in one of the beatitudes in revelation, there are seven by the

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:37

way, not unexpectedly, but he says, bless it are those seven times.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:43

And one of those blessings was pronounced on those who would, uh, re.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:50

And understand the book of revelation learning.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:54

The book of revelation is said to be one of those blessings from God.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:44:59

And so next time with the holy spirit self, we will do that.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:45:04

Thank you very much for tuning in.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:45:06

I look forward to podcasts three next week.

Gordon Ferguson: 00:45:10

God bless you.

Marcel: 00:45:11

Thank you Gordon.

Marcel: 00:45:12

And thanks for listening to deeper dive by the OSI church of Christ.

Marcel: 00:45:16

To conclude our revelation revealed series.

Marcel: 00:45:19

We will have a Q and a with Gordon about the book of revelation.

Marcel: 00:45:23

If you would like to submit your question, please email

Marcel: 00:45:25

us@osichurchofchristatgmail.com or message us on social media.

Marcel: 00:45:31

If you want to get connected to us or want to donate to the program, go to

Marcel: 00:45:35

our website O C church of christ.com or through social media at the O C church.

Marcel: 00:45:41

Join us next time for our next deeper dive.